Curse

Lakdav · Aug 10, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51

i think moloch got a point. this new OoU is not for minion masters, but can be a nice addition to other uses of death magic. Though its clearly not as powerful as fleshgolem. Heck i don't know why they changed this skill so drastically. It seems it had its uses before, so a nerf could have been enough if it was overpowered (i never used it)

boogerboy72 · Aug 10, 2008, 11:24 AM // 11:24

lol@ powerful as flesh golem

Crom The Pale · Aug 10, 2008, 11:51 AM // 11:51

They way I see this skill working is for area's with few corpses to exploit. You sumon a single minion and cast [order of undeath]. Then you can raise more minions when possible.

This also makes skills that are often unused fit on a Death Necro:

[Putrid Explosion][Necrotic Traversal][Consume Corpse][Soul Feast][Well of the Profane]

Not to mention that you can run this skill with a lower Death attribute and spec into Curses for some hex's.

zwei2stein · Aug 10, 2008, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakdav

It seems it had its uses before, so a nerf could have been enough if it was overpowered (i never used it)

Funny, noone actually uses it or seen anyone use it seriously, but everyone thinks that some other people used it.

This skill was unwieldy on player and suicidal on AI. Now its usefull gimmick skill.

Its not nerf, its just semi usefull elite being converted to different semi usefull elite.

Nightow · Aug 10, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Isn't this something they've been trying to do for a while now? Having a MM raise a more powerful but smaller army. I mean, look @ [Verata's Sacrifice]. The bonus recharge is if you have 3 or fewer minions.

Also, the new OoU reminds me a lot of Verata's Promise.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Verata%27s_Promise

Xenomortis · Aug 10, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Could this not be used to create a damage absorber using [dark bond], allowing you to potentially attack at touch range?

Let's say (not optimised in anyway at all):

[build prof=N/Any deathm=12+1+2 soulr=10 bloodm=8+2][dark aura][touch of agony][wallow's bite][unholy feast][vampiric touch][order of undeath][animate bone fiend][dark bond][/build]

I don't now how long a bone fiend will last taking 75% of damage aimed at you, but sacrifice would be a problem still. I suppose you could run [animate vampiric horror] if the saccing got to be too much, but they're more likely to be killed by the enemy.

DarkSpirit · Aug 10, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Funny, noone actually uses it or seen anyone use it seriously, but everyone thinks that some other people used it.

This skill was unwieldy on player and suicidal on AI. Now its usefull gimmick skill.

Its not nerf, its just semi usefull elite being converted to different semi usefull elite.

I have used the old OOU before, it was the fastest way to beat the Cold as Ice quest.

Because of the sac, for the old OOU you need a constant source of healing so it was not easy to take the build to a PUG without monks cursing at you. But I believe it can be made to work, for a necro, in a H/H team.

I expect that minion created by the updated OOU to be STRONGER than Flesh Golem otherwise it is not worth it. You need to bring an animate skill and an elite skill (OOU), while you only need an elite skill to make Flesh Golem work. Flesh Golem solves the low corpse problem better than OOU.

Moloch Vein · Aug 10, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

If you have Order of Undeath you don't need a healing skill for that minion. You need a healing skill to make Golem "work". Also, the OoU minion does far more damage than fleshie.

Einherj3r · Aug 10, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40

You don't need healing for the golem either because he leaves an exploitable corpse behind.

N1ghtstalker · Aug 10, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

i won't use it, ever

-Lotus- · Aug 10, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakdav

Though its clearly not as powerful as fleshgolem

lol, have you seen a flesh golem? waste of a skill slot, it never even hits anything...

DarkSpirit · Aug 10, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

If you have Order of Undeath you don't need a healing skill for that minion. You need a healing skill to make Golem "work". Also, the OoU minion does far more damage than fleshie.

Anyway, still not sure if the new OOU is worth it. I cant think of any good use for it.

ammad2006 · Aug 10, 2008, 11:53 PM // 23:53

I dunno. I think this build would be useful in pvp.

My Character6

Necromancer/Monk
Level: 20

Soul Reaping: 3
Curses: 13 (12+1)
Death Magic: 16 (12+4)

Animate Vampiric Horror (Death Magic)
Exploit nearest corpse to animate a level 18 vampiric horror. Whenever a vampiric horror you control deals damage, you gain the same amount of Health.
Energy:15 Cast:3 Recharge:15

Dark Bond (Blood Magic)
For the next 30..54 seconds, whenever you receive damage, your closest minion suffers 75% of that damage for you.
Energy:5 Cast:2 Recharge:20

Order of Undeath [Elite] (Death Magic)
Sacrifice 10% of your maximum Health. For 5 seconds, your minions deal +17 damage, but you lose 2% of your maximum Health whenever one of your minions hits with an attack.
Energy:10 Cast:1 Recharge:5

Dark Aura (Death Magic)
For 30 seconds, whenever target ally sacrifices Health, Dark Aura deals 53 Shadow damage to adjacent foes, and you lose 21 Health.
Energy:10 Cast:1 Recharge:10

Touch of Agony (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 10% maximum Health. Target touched foe takes 20..50 shadow damage.

Duplicate: Wallow's Bite, Factions.
Energy:1 Cast:0.75 Recharge:3

Wallow's Bite (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 10% maximum Health. Target touched foe takes 20..50 damage.

Duplicate: Touch of Agony, Prophecies.
Energy:1 Cast:0.75 Recharge:3

Blood Renewal (Blood Magic)
Sacrifice 25% max Health. For 10 seconds, you gain +3..5 Health regeneration. When Blood Renewal ends, you gain 40..160 Health.
Energy:1 Cast:1 Recharge:10

Resurrection Signet ( )
Resurrect target party member. That party member is returned to life with 100% Health and 25% Energy. You may use this Signet only once per mission.
Energy:0 Cast:3 Recharge:0

Bargamer · Aug 11, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Don't you mean 13 Blood?? That OoU has the old description. With all that life sac, Vamps is not gonna help you much, especially with only one of them, and Dark Bond doesn't help AT ALL. The only thing that might save you is Blood Renewal, and it's got a 25% health sac. You'll pretty much be hurting yourself more than the enemy. And nobody brings Rez Sig to PVP. Seriously.

Xenomortis · Aug 11, 2008, 10:44 AM // 10:44

A vampiric horror attacks once ever 3.17 seconds.
If the wiki is to be believed, the cause a mean amount of damage of 27.5.
Add onto that, the bonus damage from OoU and you can get a protential average of 59.5 (at 16 Death)

Now, when running something like this:

[build prof=N/Any deathm=12+1+2 soulr=10 bloodm=8+2][dark aura][touch of agony][wallow's bite][unholy feast][vampiric touch][order of undeath][animate vampiric horror][dark bond][/build]

Assuming the vamp horror still deals an average of 27.5 per hit (before OoU has been applied), then you will be healed an average of 57.5 a hit.

Given that in the time it takes the Vamp horror to hit, you can use both Touch of Agony and Wallow's Bite, then you'll probably be saccing near twice that amount before Dark Aura has had its toll on you. Oh, and I havn't mentioned damage done to you by opponants, if you're hit for an average of 60 per second, then your minion will take 45 per second (leaving you at 15). Its own health regen won't counter that.
So short of a low health bar and something like Protective spirit and some emergency life steal of heals, I can't see that being particularly helpful.

Note: I myself have never liked blood renewal, but I can appreciate its use and know that its probably a good idea to bring it along in any saccing build. I just found the 25% sac to more often kill me than save me.

Warriorsrmint · Aug 11, 2008, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Yeh it doesn't seem to make the skill any better than it was realy.

Seventh_Samurai · Aug 11, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Ok, I think I might have thought of a way to use this in PvE...[Edge of Extinction].

Combined with a [Death Nova] bomber, this could actually be pretty cool (assuming you're fighting something that has the same creature type as the minions [unded?]). Only catch is you'd have to make sure the minions spread out well (good luck!) so DN lowers everything's health below 90% for EoE to kick in. Overall, I still think it's a crappy elite compared to stuff like [Discord].

Danger Russ · Aug 13, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

I tried using this elite in fort Aspenwood last night. I ran a blood and death build and a death and channeling build. I must say that your minion still requires some healing or it will die on you and not half as duarbale as flesh golem. I used both vampiric minons and bone minions to see if they owned but they fell short. A pet or golem is a better investment. It was cool to see the bone minion blast away at someone but ended too quickly though (for the minion).

The vampire minion seemed to be confused and would not fight from time to time. Also it was a real pain to find it for splinter. It really sucked. Maybe in PVE with an Ebon Assassin, but I do not want to spend an elite necro tome to find out.

isamu kurosawa · Aug 14, 2008, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danger Russ

I tried using this elite in fort Aspenwood last night. I ran a blood and death build and a death and channeling build. I must say that your minion still requires some healing or it will die on you and not half as duarbale as flesh golem. I used both vampiric minons and bone minions to see if they owned but they fell short. A pet or golem is a better investment. It was cool to see the bone minion blast away at someone but ended too quickly though (for the minion).

The vampire minion seemed to be confused and would not fight from time to time. Also it was a real pain to find it for splinter. It really sucked. Maybe in PVE with an Ebon Assassin, but I do not want to spend an elite necro tome to find out.

Use a fiend. Ranged high speed attack coupled with the extra damage protestion of not being in melee. In low end PvP people will attack you not the ranged minion.

Moloch Vein · Aug 14, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Anyway, still not sure if the new OOU is worth it. I cant think of any good use for it.

Well, I made one attempt, but the stooges of PvX seem to be out in force... http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/..._Cannon_Healer